M-L-C
Supersport Rider
IOM 2015 - Booked/cancelled
Posts: 924
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Post by M-L-C on Nov 16, 2013 20:06:34 GMT
Can anyone advise?
Do you have to use oil specifically designed for motorbikes, or can you use car engine oil as long as it's the grade stated in the bike manual?
Please don't explode with anger at the question if you think the answer is obvious. I is just a bairn
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David
Superbike Rider
Bob's Bike
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Post by David on Nov 16, 2013 20:13:44 GMT
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Wheelnut
Superbike Rider
Tesco or bust!
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Post by Wheelnut on Nov 16, 2013 20:25:09 GMT
Main difference between bikes and cars is that on bikes the gearboxes and engines tend to be in the same casing* and lubricated by the same oil. To further complicate things the clutches on bikes tend to be immersed in the oil as well. So while 10/40 is 10/40 whether it's motul bike oil or castrol car oil, the bike varieties tend to have some additional additives to help with the high load placed on it with the gear box and to help prevent clutch slip. If you're not sure what oil to get motul 10/40 semi synth is a good all round oil. * unless you ride a tractor like mine
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David
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Bob's Bike
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Post by David on Nov 16, 2013 20:36:23 GMT
JASO
"The Japanese Automotive Standards Organization (JASO) has created their own set of performance and quality standards for petrol engines of Japanese origin.
For four-stroke gasoline engines, the JASO T904 standard is used, and is particularly relevant to motorcycle engines. The JASO T904-MA and MA2 standards are designed to distinguish oils that are approved for wet clutch use, and the JASO T904-MB standard is not suitable for wet clutch use.
These standards, especially JASO-MA (for motorcycles) and JASO-FC, are designed to address oil-requirement issues not addressed by the API service categories. One element of the JASO-MA standard is a friction test designed to determine suitability for wet clutch usage. An oil that meets JASO-MA is considered appropriate for wet clutch operations. Oils marketed as motorcycle-specific will carry the JASO-MA label."
PS. The new tractors have a wet clutch.
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nickw
Superbike Rider
Posts: 3,404
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Post by nickw on Nov 16, 2013 23:01:13 GMT
Technical stuff baffles me Kev,
Just check your hand book for correct grade and then buy proper bike oil from bike shop.
I top up with the same oil used at service so it keeps the correct properties in it. I think I'm on Castrol power 1 10/30 semi synthetic and has been since it was new, but just check hand book.
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David
Superbike Rider
Bob's Bike
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Post by David on Nov 17, 2013 6:23:42 GMT
The Honda Owner's Manual for a 2004 VFR recommends the following:- Engine OilGood engine oil has many desirable qualities. Use only high detergent, quality motor oil certified on the container to meet or exceed requirements for API Service Classification SE, SF or SG. Viscosity:Viscosity grade of the oil should be based on average atmospheric temperature in your riding area. There is a guide in the manual on page 92, you can have my manual if you haven't got one. The temperature range in the manual goes from -10 degC to 40 degC, 10W-40 will cover that range. I recently got a great deal on some Yamalube 10W-40 semi-synthetic oil (API SG & JASO MA) from Tillston Motorcycles (Stockton). API"The API oil classification structure has eliminated specific support for wet-clutch motorcycle applications in their descriptors, and API SJ and newer oils are referred to be specific to automobile and light truck use. Accordingly, motorcycle oils are subject to their own unique standards. Motorcycle oils commonly still use the obsolescent SF/SG standard."
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2013 7:55:42 GMT
Like Nick said, follow your book or ask the dealer.....or don't complain if it goes bang!
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David
Superbike Rider
Bob's Bike
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Post by David on Nov 17, 2013 8:16:09 GMT
When my first RT went "Bang", the dealers dropped the oil out and measured the quantity to ensure it had the correct amount in.
Not too sure if they would go down the route of analysing the oil for it's specification to uphold a warrenty claim.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2013 10:07:56 GMT
When my first RT went "Bang", the dealers dropped the oil out and measured the quantity to ensure it had the correct amount in. Not too sure if they would go down the route of analysing the oil for it's specification to uphold a warrenty claim. You miss the point! It has more to do with putting the right stuff into the bike rather than analysis oil for a warranty claim.....that said, oil analysis isn't that expensive if the dealer suspects non recommended products on an expensive warranty claim item
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Wheelnut
Superbike Rider
Tesco or bust!
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Post by Wheelnut on Nov 17, 2013 18:15:18 GMT
When my first RT went "Bang", the dealers dropped the oil out and measured the quantity to ensure it had the correct amount in. Not too sure if they would go down the route of analysing the oil for it's specification to uphold a warrenty claim. You miss the point! It has more to do with putting the right stuff into the bike rather than analysis oil for a warranty claim.....that said, oil analysis isn't that expensive if the dealer suspects non recommended products on an expensive warranty claim item The manual isn't often very specific about any particular brand - it does tend to say it has to meet certain specs but those specs can be met by a range of oils, often with different viscosities. The dealers will use whichever oil they're getting the biggest kickback or best deal on. I think my manual recommends 5/40. I'm sure coopers is currently banging in 10/50 fully synth on mine.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2013 18:24:21 GMT
You miss the point! It has more to do with putting the right stuff into the bike rather than analysis oil for a warranty claim.....that said, oil analysis isn't that expensive if the dealer suspects non recommended products on an expensive warranty claim item The manual isn't often very specific about any particular brand - it does tend to say it has to meet certain specs but those specs can be met by a range of oils, often with different viscosities. The dealers will use whichever oil they're getting the biggest kickback or best deal on. I think my manual recommends 5/40. I'm sure coopers is currently banging in 10/50 fully synth on mine. Does that mean your bike is not as well lubricated as it should be on cold start ups ?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2013 18:35:04 GMT
You miss the point! It has more to do with putting the right stuff into the bike rather than analysis oil for a warranty claim.....that said, oil analysis isn't that expensive if the dealer suspects non recommended products on an expensive warranty claim item The manual isn't often very specific about any particular brand - it does tend to say it has to meet certain specs but those specs can be met by a range of oils, often with different viscosities. The dealers will use whichever oil they're getting the biggest kickback or best deal on. I think my manual recommends 5/40. I'm sure coopers is currently banging in 10/50 fully synth on mine. All my bikes have specified a brand
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Wheelnut
Superbike Rider
Tesco or bust!
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Post by Wheelnut on Nov 17, 2013 19:31:33 GMT
Does that mean your bike is not as well lubricated as it should be on cold start ups ? Perhaps if I lived inside the arctic circle then maybe. But I don't so it will be fine. And, if by chance it was -40 here I think it's a safe bet that the bike wouldn't be getting started.
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Wheelnut
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Tesco or bust!
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Post by Wheelnut on Nov 17, 2013 19:37:21 GMT
The manual isn't often very specific about any particular brand - it does tend to say it has to meet certain specs but those specs can be met by a range of oils, often with different viscosities. The dealers will use whichever oil they're getting the biggest kickback or best deal on. I think my manual recommends 5/40. I'm sure coopers is currently banging in 10/50 fully synth on mine. All my bikes have specified a brand Yep, just checked an online copy of mine. Now, "BMW recommend Castrol Power" Last year "BMW recommed Mobil" Mmmm. Call me a cynic but I suspect it could be more to do with marketing strategies and partnerships than it is to do with any properties of the oil. Just use a good quality bike oil of the appropriate viscosity (or near to it) and it will be fine. Make sure the level is checked often as that tends to the biggest issue. Also stay away from fully synth for older engines.
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200magicnumba
Supersport Rider
Never ride faster than your Guardian Angel can fly,,
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Post by 200magicnumba on Nov 18, 2013 22:15:41 GMT
I`d keep to the manual`s specs. Some of the lettering and codes, do have meanings, for slicker gear changes without clonking and more so, what i`ve come across in the past, is clutch slip with the wrong specification oil in an early Yamaha FJ1200.
I also bought a Yamaha TDM850 with a fault, I bought it cheap as it was a struggle to pull out of gear when changing and selecting the next gear, very stiff and clonky, then clutch slip on the higher gears as the rev`s built. So thru my experience with bad oil took the chance, changed the oil and filter, and it cured its faults, Happy days,
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2013 13:03:21 GMT
I`d keep to the manual`s specs. Some of the lettering and codes, do have meanings, for slicker gear changes without clonking and more so, what i`ve come across in the past, is clutch slip with the wrong specification oil in an early Yamaha FJ1200. I also bought a Yamaha TDM850 with a fault, I bought it cheap as it was a struggle to pull out of gear when changing and selecting the next gear, very stiff and clonky, then clutch slip on the higher gears as the rev`s built. So thru my experience with bad oil took the chance, changed the oil and filter, and it cured its faults, Happy days, Totally agree mate but a few people like wheelnut who havent got a fcukin clue about anything now claim to know more than the people paid more than any of us put together to select the correct oil through thousands of pounds in development. Like you said its not just changing brand either from one year to another, its about testing thats been carried out at component level.........just the smallest change, material, clearance can make the difference in oil choice.............but hey, when you ride a wreck like wheelnut why not just put chip fat in (he'll probably come back will a reason for doing just that now too the muppet).
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Wheelnut
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Post by Wheelnut on Nov 20, 2013 13:40:51 GMT
Totally agree mate but a few people like wheelnut who havent got a fcukin clue about anything now claim to know more than the people paid more than any of us put together to select the correct oil through thousands of pounds in development. Like you said its not just changing brand either from one year to another, its about testing thats been carried out at component level.........just the smallest change, material, clearance can make the difference in oil choice.............but hey, when you ride a wreck like wheelnut why not just put chip fat in (he'll probably come back will a reason for doing just that now too the muppet). You've changed your tune since the other thread. Totally agree Dave! If it says use fully synthetic, then use fully synthetic and the recommended grade. Someone paid a lot more than you or me decide that for a living believe it or not. I would agree with those who use different brands but that's just the packaging at the end of the day. I choose to use Motul but its still 10W 60 fully synthetic. I also change oil and filter like Titus at approx 2000 miles. You pay a lot for a bike, so keep it running sweet I say I like motul as well. As long as it meets the specs and is a reasonable brand the actual brand is irrelevant.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2013 13:44:15 GMT
Totally agree mate but a few people like wheelnut who havent got a fcukin clue about anything now claim to know more than the people paid more than any of us put together to select the correct oil through thousands of pounds in development. Like you said its not just changing brand either from one year to another, its about testing thats been carried out at component level.........just the smallest change, material, clearance can make the difference in oil choice.............but hey, when you ride a wreck like wheelnut why not just put chip fat in (he'll probably come back will a reason for doing just that now too the muppet). You've changed your tune since the other thread. Totally agree Dave! If it says use fully synthetic, then use fully synthetic and the recommended grade. Someone paid a lot more than you or me decide that for a living believe it or not. I would agree with those who use different brands but that's just the packaging at the end of the day. I choose to use Motul but its still 10W 60 fully synthetic. I also change oil and filter like Titus at approx 2000 miles. You pay a lot for a bike, so keep it running sweet I say I like motul as well. As long as it meets the specs and is a reasonable brand the actual brand is irrelevant. Arrr but thats where you didnt do youre homework properly.....Moto GB couldnt import AGIP which was the MV recommended oil and therefore Motul was given as the best alternative if you're gonna do homework do like I tell my boys and do it correctly
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2013 13:47:30 GMT
Totally agree mate but a few people like wheelnut who havent got a fcukin clue about anything now claim to know more than the people paid more than any of us put together to select the correct oil through thousands of pounds in development. Like you said its not just changing brand either from one year to another, its about testing thats been carried out at component level.........just the smallest change, material, clearance can make the difference in oil choice.............but hey, when you ride a wreck like wheelnut why not just put chip fat in (he'll probably come back will a reason for doing just that now too the muppet). You've changed your tune since the other thread. I like motul as well. As long as it meets the specs and is a reasonable brand the actual brand is irrelevant. Thank heavens we agree on something I was getting bored of that
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Wheelnut
Superbike Rider
Tesco or bust!
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Post by Wheelnut on Nov 20, 2013 13:49:50 GMT
I also bought a Yamaha TDM850 with a fault, I bought it cheap as it was a struggle to pull out of gear when changing and selecting the next gear, very stiff and clonky, then clutch slip on the higher gears as the rev`s built. So thru my experience with bad oil took the chance, changed the oil and filter, and it cured its faults, Happy days, That may (perhaps) have been down to very good oil rather than bad oil. Some older engines really don't like fully synthetic.
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