Which oil ?

[Lee]

was chatting with a few boys in the cafe tonight about oil. I personally believe in mineral oil for any new engine as shards will come off. I would then change to semi synthetic at the 6k mark and possibly fully synthetic at 12k. I generally do one service per year as a matter of course so just use semi synthetic. Whats everyone elses thoughts on the use of engine oil ?

[shocx]

You mean I have to put oil in this thing?!

[greenman]

i think the same as you lee but the idea of some people say why waste money on fully syn-oil when you can use semi-syn -oil ,for the extra £10 its always fully-syn-oil even if it states semi-syn-oil for your bike ,at least i am getting the best ,then there is the problem what is the best fully -syn-oil

[wildone]

Oct 7, 2009 20:04:49 GMT Lee said:

was chatting with a few boys in the cafe tonight about oil. I personally believe in mineral oil for any new engine as shards will come off. I would then change to semi synthetic at the 6k mark and possibly fully synthetic at 12k. I generally do one service per year as a matter of course so just use semi synthetic. Whats everyone elses thoughts on the use of engine oil ?

There are some clues in the image as to what mainjetmike would say !
His advise could well be influence by the lucrative contract that he enjoyed with that great company

BUT --- I'm telling you that we never had any lube problems with Shell

I disagree with your staged quality usage theory Lee ---
It is my considered opinion which is firmly based upon experience of hard / competitive usage that the best oil of the grade and viscosity recommended by the manufacturer of The Machine itself should be used THROUGHOUT .
I'll also stand-by one of my other principles which I explained to you previously --- the cleanliness of the lube is at least as important as it's quality
In other words oil-changing frequency should be in proportion to the load / work given to it with an erring on the side of "early"

If you save money on lubrication you will re-pay it in clearances.

Regarding brand names -- I also remember boring you with my theory that many of the household / workshop lubes don't actually have access to crude and therefore they are only blenders of a bigger companies products.

I literally have no "axe to grind" these days but I'm still very comfortable to recommend Shell Oils as a brand-name for all applications and if fully synthetic is recommended by the bike / engine manufacturer then you can't really afford to buy less

I could say if you can't actually afford good oil then buy a cheap bike but I'm much too polite to say that --- it is alleged !

[Lee]

I accept that a mineral oil will protect and lubricate for a lesser period than a synthetic oil. Its in its structure. It makes sense then that it needs to be changed more frequently. If we take a brand new engine from scratch and run it on fully synthetic (like my works van) whilst its being run in there will be tiny shavings and shards of metal that come away from the various engine components.

These shards will be picked up by the oil filter and before very long the filter will require renewing. If we change the oil and fitler on this new engine at say 1000 miles then a normal mineral oil would still be offering protection

In reality what really needs changing here is the oil filter. And if thats gonna be changed it makes perfect sense to change the oil too. Regardless of its type.

I called the service department when my van hit a thousand miles and was told "oh its got long life oil in, its ok until 20k miles "

This translated to me that network rail are using synthetic oil in their vehicles. I agree that Synthetic oil does out live mineral oil by quite some margin but it does not stop an oil filter from becoming blocked with debris. Especially on a new engine.

It could be argued then that some folks could use the longevity as an excuse to miss out some servicing. not a good thing on a new engine.

20k on the original oil and filter or a filter and mineral change at 1k, 6k, 12k and18k ? If i was buying the van second hand i know which one of the two i would choose !

An email has gone out to all staff recently warning them to keep an eye open for excessive oil consumption on the vans. Surely enough they all seem to use a worrying amount.

Whether this is down to the type of oil used or the servicing schedule (if you can call it that ) is debateable but i have my suspicions.

Im sure what keith is saying is probably bang on the money, especially when it comes to the manufacturers reccomemdations. I probably could run my bike on fully synthetic and only service it every three years, but come on ! I value a bit of quality garage time !

[dalton]

I use semi synthetic and change the oil in my bikes every 2-3000 miles, but i do know people who hardly ever change the oil, which i cant understand, as really what does it take to do it

[Lee]

precisely. Its only a small job. Its a chance to have a look under the fairings and check for any leaks, corrosion or damage. Probably more about peace of mind. I normally do mine every winter just before the start of the season. Perhaps i should use fully synth but on account of the relatively low mileage between oil changes, i cant justify it to myself to use anything more exotic than a good quality semi synthetic.

[David]

What oil, what grade, what viscosity and what service intervals are all good questions.

Having purchased my R1200RT from new, I have used the same oil, which the dealers use as recommended by BMW. The oil has been either BMW branded or Castrol 20W - 50 mineral, (surprisingly, the BMW oil at about £5 per litre is cheaper than Castrol). The oil type needs to be API grade SF or higher, both oils are SG grade. The recommended service intervals are every 6,000 miles and/or every 12 months.

BMW advise that to ensure smooth running-in of a new engine, synthetic oil is not used until at least 6,000 miles has been covered.

It can only be of benefit for longevity of the engine to do frequent oil and filter changes; I do it every 3,000 miles. (Ran a Mk2 VW Golf GTI for 17 years covering 225,000 miles before I sold it, the oil and filter had been changed every 5,000 miles, no engine work had been required).

Most recently, BMW are now recommending using a 10W - 50 fully synthetic, SL grade oil, developed by Castrol, at a cost of £15 per litre.

I now have a choice to make, do I continue to use a 20W - 50, SG grade mineral oil or consider changing to a 10W - 50 fully synthetic oil?

Hein Gericke offer a 20W - 50 mineral and a 10W - 50 fully synthetic oil, both SG grades at the same cost, £5 per litre. My concern is that the synthetic oil is not SL grade as recommended, however, I am tempted to change to this fully synthetic oil, does anyone have any comments and/or advice?

Having spoken to Castrol technical department, my feeling is that a fully synthetic oil of the same SG grade, will give greater engine protection. I will continue with oil and filter changes every 3,000 miles. The 10W - 50 viscosity range will give better protection on start up, (where most engine wear occurs), and when the engine/ambient temperature is cold and the same for high temperatures.

The BMW engine has a dry clutch and separate gearbox therefore motorcycle specific oils are not too critical, be aware that non-motorcycle specific oils may cause problems with wet clutches, causing them to slip.

My other bike is a 1981 Yamaha XJ650; I currently use a 10W - 40 semi-synthetic oil, originally used 20W - 50 Castrol GTX mineral oil. A 10W - 40 viscosity range oil can become too thin at high engine/ambient temperatures, reducing lubrication protection. I might consider using the same fully synthetic 10W - 50 oil for both bikes.

At the end of the day, oil technology is continually being developed in conjunction with engine manufacturers, and you only get what you pay for.

[titus]

The jury is still out on whether fully synthetic oils damage wet clutches,personally I use Motul semi-synthetic and change it every 2000 miles which I believe is the best policy.

[wildone]

[quote I have used the same oil, which the dealers use as recommended by BMW. The oil has been either BMW branded or Castrol 20W - 50 mineral,
[/quote]

Please refer to my earlier posting --- neither Castro nor BMW have access to crude
Neither have the capacity to refine lube of any description
They are blenders and repackagers of the products of others
The truth is they are expert marketeers and indeed can sell their blends more efficiently than can the original makers.
Not too many years ago Castrol were brilliantly selling their product which everyone saw on TV running down the side of a new oil-tin and then flowing into the jaws of an open-ended spanner and, of course, it fitted there perfectly.
I won't quote my dated figures but suffice to say that product outsold every other forecourt available lube by a very long way
When I put that reality to a Shell rep. (who was talking to mainjetmike) he said yes but it's "my" oil anyway -- they just market it better.
Even good packaging can give you more personal comfort !

[Lee]

ah yes, liquid engineering. I remember that advert. I used to use that shell helix oil years back. What i will say about shell is that im convinced that cars/vans run better and further on their fuel than on any other manufacturers.

[morphius]

Semi syn for me, twice a year, seems to do the trick.

[David]

Oct 7, 2009 21:33:30 GMT greenman said:

i think the same as you lee but the idea of some people say why waste money on fully syn-oil when you can use semi-syn -oil ,for the extra £10 its always fully-syn-oil even if it states semi-syn-oil for your bike ,at least i am getting the best ,then there is the problem what is the best fully -syn-oil

Surely you use Duckhams, it's Green! ;D

[David]

Oct 8, 2009 20:58:20 GMT Lee said:

ah yes, liquid engineering. I remember that advert.

Yes, I used Castrol GTX Magnatec 10W - 40 semi-synthetic in my Golf GTI, 225,000 miles and still going strong when I sold it.

[David]

May be the real issue here is that most bikes don't do high enough mileage to see if there is any benefit to fancy oils.

[Lee]

especially those bmw's they normally blow up and require a new engine after a few hundred miles.

[Mainjetmike]

Theres only one oil for bikes, Shell Ultra fully syn. £35 for a four litre can, worth every penny.

Use anything else at your peril.

I have some used oil in a container, waiting to be thrown away ( ahem recycled ) and i bet its still far superiour to any of the "fancy name" stuff brand new on the shelf in a fancy bottle.

Enough said.

[wildone]

Oct 9, 2009 8:10:10 GMT Mainjetmike said:

Theres only one oil for bikes, Shell Ultra fully syn. £35 for a four litre can, worth every penny.

Use anything else at your peril.

I have some used oil in a container, waiting to be thrown away ( ahem recycled ) and i bet its still far superiour to any of the "fancy name" stuff brand new on the shelf in a fancy bottle.

Enough said.

How did we all know that you would mention Shell Oils mainjet --




PS
I note that you are still unable to drive your spell-check

See me after class !

[Lee]

ahem, i see someone still has nt read the thread on how to re size photos !

[wildone]

Oct 9, 2009 11:48:12 GMT Lee said:

ahem, i see someone still has nt read the thread on how to re size photos !

wot scool dyah think ar went at lyke
arl get a littler camera jusnow

ar se thut thou picson us poor folks arl the tyme --- givvowa man